Aug. 16, 2020

10. Jim Lebrecht | Dream Guest and Tornadoes…….

When we first started this journey we created a "dream guest" list as a goal of guest that we really wanted to interview. This week's guest was one of those guests. Jim Lebrecht from the Sundance award-winning Netflix Documentary Crip Camp. We felt like we met a rock star. Not only did the documentary speak to us as parents, but as we mention in the episode Jim has Spina Bifida just like our Little Eddie and it was awesome to connect there too!  What an eventful episode to record as well, during this recording we had tornado warnings here in New England, and our power and internet kept going out. We actually had to finish our episode the next day. Jim was so kind as to jump on a second call with us. This week we encourage EVERYONE to listen to this episode and share it as much as you can. It is one of our favorites. Jim brought so much great insight into his experience into Camp Jenad and the 504 sit-ins as well as his influence in the film industry.

In honor of this week's episode, we will be recommending tv episodes and films that have fantastic representation. Please keep a close eye on our social media and watch ALL our recommended episodes obviously starting with Crip Camp.


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Welcome back listeners. O M G, have we got a treat for you? We are honored to have this week's guests on our show. We felt like we met a rockstar. He was there to help shape our modern day ADA laws. It was also the co-director of an amazing Netflix documentary Crip camp, and so much more. You're going to love this episode.

[00:00:21] So don't miss out. Please remember if you love the show to share it with a friend and even let us know on social media. Thanks and enjoy this episode with Jim murders and gentlemen.

So we'd like to welcome to the show. Jim Le Breck, uh, you are a filmmaker, a disability rights activist and the director of the Netflix Crip camp. Yeah. He co-directed with Nicole Newnham and co-produced it with her as well.

[00:01:29] Awesome. So welcome to the show, Jim. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, we're super excited to have you here. This is cool. Thank you really exciting for us. We've been real excited to kind of have you on for us. This is like we kind of had it when we first started kind of picturing the podcast and what it would be.

[00:01:52] We had this. Dream guests list of like, I think five or 10 people that we were like one day we want to do, we want to make sure we interview this person, this person, this person, and definitely on the top of our list or as you, um, I will say for sure, right when we started the podcast or just dreaming of the podcast, we saw Crip camp and.

[00:02:18] The first 10 minutes of Crip camp, you know, you're featured in it and you come right on and you talk about, and we'll get into it as we talk. But you talk about your disability and that you have spinal bifida. And our son has spina bifida. So for us, the minute the words came out of your mouth, we were like, Oh, we were like yelling at our son, having them come in the room.

[00:02:40] It was like up on the screen in the living room. I mean, it's such a small thing that there's a connect, you know that, Oh, there's just somebody else. It should be a small thing, right. That there's just somebody else on TV that has the same disability as our child, but, or for as him. But in our house, it's a big deal.

[00:02:56] There's not always someone that looks like you, or, you know, walks like you, or has something the same disability as you on a TV screen. And so in our house, that's a huge deal. And we didn't even know what we were watching. Yeah. Well, I mean, it is a huge deal. And one of the things that, you know, I've seen is that we lack such.

[00:03:19] Representation or accurate representation on TV or in the movies. And that indeed, I mentioned this in the film. I grew up really not seeing anybody like me. On TV, except for, you know, telethons where they were using pity to raise funds for this charity or that shirt. How old is, how old is your son? He's eight now.

[00:03:44] Far up. Yeah. Yeah, it was super, you know, and we honestly, we turned on the documentary having zero clue what the documentary was about. We really thought it was just about a camp, which in itself was exciting for us. To think, Oh, there's this key, you know, there's this group of people who started a camp and, you know, no idea where turn the documentary takes and in the advocacy and, and everything you guys have done.

[00:04:13] And so, you know, so that, you know, we do want to get it. We want to get into that as well. Cause I want to make sure that. We kind of talked to our listeners about everyone we talked to, we were like, you have to see this documentary. You have to hear everything. I did you even know the story behind this and how this all yes.

[00:04:29] Or people are like, yeah, of course we saw that and we're like, well, we didn't, we need you to know all about it, tell everybody, but, so, yeah, so that was, you know, even more exciting for us. And so, you know, Let's just start there. That, that was exciting. Um, but we really want to know from you, tell us a little bit to start about your story.

[00:04:49] Where are you from? Where'd you grow up? Um, tell us a little bit about you. All right. Well, I am a 64 years old and I grew up in Westchester County, just North of New York city. You do not look 64 sucks. You know, Jim, you know, uh, thank you. Like, like the joke. Um, my sister got the legs and I got the hair.

[00:05:22] So that's awesome. Yeah. And, uh, but obviously by while you can't see me right now, but clean living has really been my hallmark and yeah. That's not even true. That's not even true either. Um, so I, you know, I, uh, I spent the first 18 years. Uh, through high school, um, in, in the New York, in West Chester, I was very fortunate that I had a special ed teacher who, um, really encouraged my parents to try to get me into public school because there was, um, I was excelling in any, you know, in class and felt like I would do well in public school.

[00:06:03] And I back in gosh, uh, 1962 or so I was an experiment. And, uh, our school district. So, you know, and folks who've grown up on as part of the five Oh four or the ADA generation, you know, there were no mandates that, that fo you know, kids with disabilities. To go to public school, to be with the non disabled kids.

[00:06:30] So, and then, you know, reality, I mean, this could have been taken away from me right through high school. Right. You know, somebody could have said, you know, I don't know, you know, I think we're wasting time educating him or ordinance what else they could've come up with. But, um, that one. That one decision and that one experiment on the part of the.

[00:06:57] Greenburgh school district really saved my life. Yeah. And, um, so, um, for there, I went off to San Diego to go to college, uh, in the fall of 1974. And, uh, I just wanted up studying, um, Good drama there. I was kind of into sound already and I thought maybe it was going to become an acoustics major and then found out that it's all math and physics and

[00:07:30] Oh no. Now you're talking numbers. Y and, uh, so. I am. I want to get involved with the drama department and I'm really, I've had, uh, wound up after college, have an agreement we're in regional theater, um, working for the Berkeley repertory theater that you've seen the film, but also doing sound for other theaters on the West coast.

[00:07:54] Um, like Chloe playing house and the old globe theater in San Diego and even it's NFX or one show, uh, at the public theater in New York, which was. Some of those are not small potatoes. No, it's not, you know, it's like even that, so, well, you know, I'd say that for example, 1982, there's no way to get a wheelchair into that building without going with steps.

[00:08:18] Yeah. So not all, but I had worked with this, uh, playwright, Dez Mackinaw, who was, remounting a musical that I worked on with, been on the West coast here and he wanted me to do his sound effects. So I had to spend probably close to an hour. Talking to their production manager, convincing them that I could climb out of my wheelchair and get to where I needed to get to, uh, to do my job.

[00:08:41] And, and, but I had grown up in this little house. So my wheelchair was always in the garage. I crawled all around house, which, you know, uh, really prepared for me in life, in the theater. Yeah, well, and I, as a theater geek myself, and I think for someone who isn't been, you know, who's not around theater as much.

[00:09:02] It's not even traditional like a house in a theater it's straight up and downstairs most of the time to get into those areas so that you're getting into. To do the sound or in that back, that area. It's your it's straight up and down those stairs. A lot of the times back of houses. Yeah. It's tall. It's a lot of stairs.

[00:09:24] I wasn't Superman, but I was in really great shape in my twenties. And so. I the old, you know, the Berkeley rep fortunately was, uh, building a new theater when I joined them right after college in 1978. So for two years I was climbing upstairs out of my wheelchair, um, that were going up the outside of, you know, the theater, which is actually okay.

[00:09:48] Basically a house that had been like lifted up years ago. And it basically is your, you know, your basic beginning repertory theater space. And, um, but when they moved into the new space in downtown Berkeley, there was an elevator, there were ramps in places. And I, I remember looking at their, their plans.

[00:10:13] For the building. And I noticed this one spot, that was a step. And I said, this needs to be a ramp. And Lord knows because if I hadn't been around that would have got by them. And it was like, that was a ramp that I took five or six times a day, at least. Yeah. You know, so, uh, anyway, um, and from there I kind of moved into film.

[00:10:38] Doing an audio for film sound effects editing. There was at the time this great post production facility, a run owned and run by salt Zantac. The movie producer and Saul had done the English patient and one flew over the Cuckoo's nest and Emma Dez. And here was this. Great facility facility with a bunch of editing rooms and mixed ages and such.

[00:11:02] And I just started, um, trying to make inroads with some of the sound supervisors there, getting them tickets to shows I did at Berkeley rep and said, let's get a beer afterwards and just developed some, you know, some, some casual friendships and such. So yeah. When I decided it was time to leave the theater.

[00:11:26] I asked some people like a journey and fortunately I got a break and got on his show. Nice. Um, and then, uh, I guess the kind of end up my resume before the film. Um, a few years later I started my own sound company. Um, within the building where the film center was, and we really focused on documentary film.

[00:11:47] Yeah. And really kind of focusing on that, the loving care and the sound design. Concepts and, and really looking at very thoroughly the way that I had learned in, in theater. Yeah. And, um, so anyway, I, um, Brenda company until a couple of years ago, and a Crip camp was starting to really rev up. And, um, and so now I'm, uh, you know, um, Okay.

[00:12:17] W Crip camp is out in the world and it's getting a wonderful audience and, uh, Nicola and I have made the film. We are looking at other projects, um, to do and you know, who knows we could be doing some stuff in the future ourselves. Um, but you know, for the moment it's, uh, it's still just really exciting.

[00:12:39] Yeah. I mean, it seems to be keeping you busy now, at least. For sure. Let me tell you leading up to 88 30, you wouldn't believe what are you calendars look like, but for like, you know, you want to say yes to as much as you can to support, support our community and, and to be there. And that there's. There's so much beyond the film itself that you see that's important to, to us, uh, on, on the film.

[00:13:04] And, you know, part of that is our impact campaign that we had raised funds for, and we can get them to bed now or later. But, um, I, I think that. Really the thing that was most important to us was that people realized this is just one story. And that, that our community has got so many other stories and so many other people.

[00:13:29] And that we really focus the film on these people that went to camp. And then that went on in their lives to be involved politically. Um, in, in the movement and, uh, you know, even lie in L a Woodridge and one of the counselors, you know, he wasn't at the five Oh four, but he went in and worked, um, around people with people with disabilities for many, many years.

[00:13:55] And, you know, he's been the, kind of the hardest still of the it's dirt. For so many years. So, yeah. So, you know, you talked a little bit about, you know, kind of what propelled your future with, you know, really a teacher, kind of a special ed teacher kind of catapulting you in to that mainstream kind of public school world.

[00:14:24] What kind of influence did your parents have? I imagine, you know, you must have some sort of parents that really motivated or just were motivated to say, listen, we know that he's, you know, he will, he will do fine. He can do this. Like, you know, what were your parents like as far as an influence where they were just like, let's go for this.

[00:14:50] Um, you know, both my parents tried to raise me. Um, certainly not ignoring the fact that I had spinal bifida and that I can't walk. Um, but they wanted me to be self-sufficient. They wanted me to experience the world and to know how to navigate it on my own. Yeah. And, and so, um, you know, as you may remember from the film, my father gave me some very, very good advice, you know, saying, Hey, Jimmy, you know, you're going to have to be outgoing.

[00:15:25] Cause people are not likely to come up and just strike up a conversation with you, you know? And, um, there's nothing cool about that. That's it? That's the truth. I think we hear that time and time again, almost everybody. We speak to two themes that continue to run. One is your going to have to be your own advocate.

[00:15:49] Like you're in charge. Someone isn't going to be in charge for you. You're going to have to be in charge of the situation for yourself. You know, whether that's with doctors, whether that's with, you know, a boss, whether that's ill in the world, whatever you're going to have to be your own advocate, someone isn't going to be that advocate for you.

[00:16:06] You know, that's number one and two, you know, the big themes always been like exactly what you said, like, you know, I always wonder, like, is it the chicken or the egg? Like we see our son is so outgoing. We always call, we call him the mayor. You know, we said like, he's like the mayor of everything, you know, because he just, he's gonna just be the energies, the light of the room.

[00:16:26] He's going to talk to everybody. He kind of runs the show, but then I always wonder, is that his natural personality or is that just. How we set the tone because we've, he's had to kind of be that way, because if he's not that way, he's kind of on his own. He's going to set the tone for the room so that he is going to make friends.

[00:16:48] Cause if he does that, everyone's going to come to him that way. Versus if he doesn't, he's just kind of on alone in the corner. It's it almost kind of sets its own way by doing that. It's interesting. You know, I mean, some, some of us are just really shy in this world and some of us are, you know, really gregarious and outgoing and.

[00:17:08] I, I think that what's important is to recognize who your kid is. Um, but to encourage them not force them necessarily, but sometimes you have to go to the deep end of the swimming pool once or twice. But on the other side of it is don't, don't get them away. Yeah. Don't don't encourage bad habits. In regards to gee, I'd rather just stay and watch play video games all day.

[00:17:38] Yeah. You know, like any, any other child you may know or have that can easily yeah. Gimme shy, but still experience the world. Yeah, exactly. I've heard stories of parents who, after their kid graduate high school, the kids in their room playing video games, you know, and, and. And I don't think it's because they cannot succeed in the world.

[00:18:06] I think that parents can be over protective, that they can have low expectations for their kid and just want to be, you know, make sure that they're safe and never disappointed or never hurts. Yeah. Well, I think it's really easy right now. I think in general, it's easy to do that as a parent and we kind of live in a world where it's almost become the narrative.

[00:18:30] In this generation to like, be a little more over protective, but then you add on top of that, I know my experience as a parent, you add on top of that, you know, where you're, if your child comes into this world fighting. I'm on the defense to like protect them extra. So then I'm, it's a lot harder to kind of step back and be like, you can do it.

[00:18:52] I'm not going to extra protect you. You're like, it's really hard sometimes to kind of step back and let them, you know, almost like bite your tongue metaphorically in a way and just go. I'm just going to, I'm going to do this one. He's a lot better at it than I am like good luck. I had to do it to be over there, drinking a beer.

[00:19:10] Let me know if you need me.

[00:19:18] Oh my God. I mean, I, I think that I did have kind of that kind of gregarious personality and, um, and yeah. I, um, I met, uh, I met a woman that there was a wonderful documentary. Came out. Gosh, maybe 15 years ago called my flesh and blood. And it, uh, and it was about this woman who was probably about twenty-five miles North of where I am and, you know, Oakland, California.

[00:19:46] And she had adopted all these different kids with disabilities. And we have, um, my wife and I were heading off to Sundance film festival and the film was premiere in there and we happened to be on. On the same flight with this, this mother would raise, adopted these kids. And we started talking about, well, I have spun a diffident.

[00:20:08] She says, well, so-and-so in the film, you know, she's got spotted benefit and she's got this like cocktail party personality, you know? And I don't know if that rings true for you and your boy. Yes. I mean, I think that's me. I'm once crawl down. You know, I live in the suburbs, you know, I, I like crawled out of the house under the lawn of my next door neighbor and kept her going down the street, but knocking on the doors and basically saying, hi, my name is Jim.

[00:20:37] And I'm looking for friends. Sometimes, you know, they said, Oh, this we go to like, you know, doctor's appointments and they'll say, Oh, this is a, you know, a side effect of spine, but this is a side I'm like, well, is this like, is this amazing personality? Can we just add that to the list? Because he is everybody I meet like every other kid that is we're in like a group with, um, like that also has spinal bifida have the same personality.

[00:21:01] They all have this like, amazing, like over the top, like they're all little mayors. They all want to play with everybody. They're all like ready to go. Nobody's shy. I'm like, who are you? Well, I feel like in our son's case though, you know, he, he gets a lot of it from me. Oh, okay.

[00:21:24] Yeah. So do you think now you're just going to transition it. I mean, you know, the documentary is based beginning base around the camp, camp Sinead, um, Jeanette, Jeanette, right? Um, you, you were a camper there, were you one of the, it was, were you a camper of the first kind of set of campers or was this camp around before you kind of started going there?

[00:21:50] And it really, it started in the early 1950s as a camp for kids and adults with disabilities. So your group of campers were kind of just a really extra special group that kind of found each other. Well, you know, there's so many different things that kind of came together. Um, you know, Judy gentleman had, um, who was in the film who.

[00:22:14] If you don't know who she is, is kind of a legendary disability rights, uh, icon and leader. And, um, um, you know, she had been a camper there for a number of years when I started going to camp that summer, she was on staff there. I think, I think she was probably running girls teen camp or co-running it. And yeah.

[00:22:37] So, you know, first I'm reading Judy cumin, uh, is, was like this incredible, like lightning bolt because, um, gosh, where do I begin? She had, uh, I knew that she had filed suit to get a teaching position because she had gotten, she had basically, she got her license and everything, but the New York city school district, which is refused to give her a position.

[00:23:05] So she was a fire hazard. You couldn't get the kids out or she couldn't, you know, help them go to the bathroom or whatever else it was coming up with. And she prevailed in that lawsuit. They. They settled before I went to do a trial. And so it a 15 year old. And, and I don't remember what you were like when I was 15.

[00:23:27] You were 15, but you know, the world's not fair. I hate everybody. Nothing's right. And I want it, it should be, should be fixed. And, but if somebody with a disability, especially back then, you know, there's no curb cuts, there's no ramps into buildings. Like, you know, it's, um, it's just really difficult to be in this world.

[00:23:49] It isn't built for you. And now I'm meeting somebody who flipped back and prevail. Yeah. And it's like, Whoa, we can do that. I mean, we're not relegated to take it. Whatever charity. Uh, we're given, but we have rights and it was like, wow. So, and Judy started disabled in action in New York city. And as a teenager, I, you know, disabled in action was I think they're still around, you know, disability rights group.

[00:24:19] And I started going to meetings and, and doing things outside of camp. So, I mean, you have that going on and. And then it's also the times the early seventies know Vietnam war, still going to approach us in the streets, different liberation movements and, and, you know, Judy, um, No. She, she recalls being in the bunks at night and talking about how people with disabilities needed their own movement.

[00:24:49] Yeah. And, um, I don't think we were talking about that in the boys bug that they probably just don't get it about the girls and the girls, but they had loftier conversation. Yeah.

[00:25:02] Um, but. And so in, just in regards to talking about this group. So let me just fill into other things. Some of the folks you see in the film, I mean, they had all gone to special school together with, uh, Judy Neil Jacobson and Steve Hoffman. And so they were all friends from way back when Judy comes out to Berkeley to help, um, run the center for independent living within Roberts.

[00:25:30] It's like, it was like, she was like, Hey, going to another country. And she was calling, calling back to the, to the old country and saying, the ramps are paved with gold. Let's come out here because you know, there's no snow cuts center for independent living. We help you find some attendant care or somebody to build a ramp or housing or help you get on SSI.

[00:25:54] And it's like, This was like a no brainer for everybody. Kind of like reinventing the community that we experienced at camp and in New York, without there Andrew, a lot better circumstance in the real world. Like, you know, like where you can w where it's not just like a summer where this is looking like it's every day, all the time.

[00:26:19] I mean, that's what I remember. I was watching it. I was literally like watching it, thinking we're even, you know, all these years later and I'm thinking, Oh, imagine if this was just everywhere. You know, not in cities and you're just anywhere being like, I could just pick up a phone and say, okay, what's our next step.

[00:26:36] Now that my, you know, now, now that when he's ready for moving out on his own, where do we go? Where do we call what's our next step? So we can transition like it should. I mean, obviously I think. Any teenager needs that next step learning and transition, but you know, like it's the same idea, like what's our next step, what's our transition.

[00:26:57] And how do we kind of do that so that it's, you know, an easier transition into that real world and the fact that that was just happening. And obviously it's not easy, but it was doable. On a level then when there are things way less accessible than there are now, it's doable. There, there aren't excuses, things are a little bit more loose.

[00:27:28] Also. It just, there was a great sense of community and. Um, people were really sharing resources and, you know, gee, my attendance sick, you know, you can call up somebody and usually make a connection big. Cause it wasn't a huge, I mean, Berkeley is not the biggest city in the world. So, you know, people, you know, really we're really, really tight.

[00:27:51] I think that you see that kind of comradery and community spirit. In our film, that that was really the secret to the success of the five Oh four, the city and the federal ability for regulation to sign. Right. And look, you know, I'm and so, you know, GGM what's happening today. Well, let me tell you, after this, that I'm seeing today, it's the same way.

[00:28:17] Yeah. Everybody's kind of looking out for each other, the, um, the disability justice movement. Uh, was something that I was not aware of until a few years ago, but it's really looking at disability rights through the lens of blacks and indigenous and people of color and, and folks on the LGBTQ eye, kind of not, they're not the non-traditional voices of what we are used to coming hearing from.

[00:28:45] And, and. These are the people who are really doing the incredible work nowadays. They remind me of what I see in the film from the city. And, you know, when they go in gut Tufts to Northern California, it was people there that basically, um, like were COVID. Uh, there was, there was a group that was started by a few people, including Stacy, Melbourne of the disability justice culture club.

[00:29:11] And they gathered in and were able to credit mutual aid where, you know, they were bringing food and medicine and, um, to people who, for which leaving the house was very, very dangerous. Yeah. Because, because of the pandemic and, um, any anyway, I'm, uh, I'm really happy that one of the things that Nicole and I, um, were able to do was the hand or impact campaign for our film off Stacey and another woman, then Drea, Lavonne.

[00:29:45] And who were very, very, very knowledgeable in that community. And one of the highlights of this was that we've been doing virtual Crip camps, the re Sunday. Yeah. I saw that, that, that just kind of. You guys were doing that every evening onsite while evening here. Every Sunday. Yeah. Yeah. And it's only through the end of August, but we've had some incredible speakers and folks talking about all sorts of different issues, um, including, you know, self-care and.

[00:30:20] Black disabled history. And, um, you might've remember that, uh, president Obama and Mrs. Obama's production company is our executive producers. Encrypt champ. Yeah, well we, uh, uh, about three or four weeks ago, um, uh, president Obama joined our. Our Crip camp and, uh, hung out for about 45 minutes or so. And, and, um, you know, it was, it was awesome.

[00:30:50] That was just a remarkable experience. Just, you know, he just, president Obama just drops in, you know, no big deal. You know, we knew this was going to happen, but we all kept our lips shut. And, uh, but it was unannounced and, you know, Twitter all of a sudden, Oh, I bet. But the sweetest thing really was, you know, as we often do, when we're on panels, we'll describe ourselves.

[00:31:19] And in, you know, so, and then my describe, I should probably describe myself or, you know, well, I guess we're not the ones losing out of the fact that they don't need to know that I'm, you know, I got a scraggly ha you know, hat on, and my hair is going all over the place. But president Obama, you know, did his description cause we we're on zoom.

[00:31:42] And Sam, you know, I've got more gray hair than I used to, and I'm sitting in my home office and I got a picture of my self and my family swimming, you know, in Hawaii where I was born, you know,

[00:31:56] and, um, the leaning behind him doing his audio description of himself. As a protocol that so many of us do, um, show such solidarity and respect and understanding, um, for us. And Lord knows we can use a lot more than that. Yes, that's it that's, I think it means so much to that. Like even just that, that short amount of, you know, that short amount of time though, that like he's.

[00:32:31] Willing to, you know, he's not necessarily part of that community, this community, but he's willing to put the time in to kind of say, this is important to me. Cause it's important to the world. This difference needs to be made. Yeah. Um, it didn't hurt that Judy Hiland had worked in his administration also in the state departments, but, um, that wasn't the reason that he was there.

[00:32:58] I mean, this is, you know, there we're the first film that, uh, No higher ground is their production company. Did their first one that came out was, um, American factory, but they had purchased that. Kind of already made and the British purchased it at Sundance. And, uh, we were sort of Nicole and I were still in production.

[00:33:20] We're still finishing up shooting and editing and they came on early and they're cheap principals at higher ground. Uh, Priya Saman, Nathan and Tony Davis really rolled up their sleeves with us. And that the Obamas themselves looked at some cuts and gave some, you know, some notes and. So, but I think that's even more important that they're like, they're not just saying, Oh, here you go.

[00:33:46] Like they're, they're participating. They're it's important to them. You're so right.

[00:33:56] I just gotta edit. When I called her the wrong name. Listen, this editing is taking forever. I have to go grocery shopping. Yeah, that's why you should go to Instacart or right now they connect you with a personal shopper in your local area to deliver groceries from your favorite stores. Instacart delivers groceries in as fast as one hour.

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[00:34:37] You know, and I think we all know that, you know, when we go out in the world, if we're, if we are dealing with people, we're not that familiar. We a disability, you know, we, we are often either willingly or unwillingly kind of becoming like ambassadors for the planet disabled. Yeah. And you kind of want to make it easier for the next person.

[00:35:02] And you want to explain kind of what's going on here because it's not all about braille menus and wheelchairs. Right. And that it is about love and affection and. Culture and sex and community, and not, not that. Well, not that some of us will talk about sex in the first conversation, but it just depends on the situation.

[00:35:26] Um, you know, people don't know that there's a disabled community. Well, I think that people, I identify culturally as disabled. Well, I think the thing that this, the whole, like, you know, and I know that I'm not, you know, I'm not disabled, I'm a parent of someone who's disabled and you know, you know, we have two children that are, you know, going through their own difficulties and, you know, it's, but you know, we are still a part of this community and we are here advocating for them on an everyday basis.

[00:36:00] And we're going through it our own way as well, some days. And so, you know, we still experience it in our own ways, a lot of the time. And so just like you said, like so many times, like we're walking around being advocates a lot of the time, but there are days where it's like, we just want to be like, Hey.

[00:36:21] We just want to be a mom and dad, I don't want to have to teach you something just because you came up to us and, you know, I just, I don't want to have to teach you that this is how it is. Like you just want to be Kristen and Eddie or mom and dad to, you know, our kids, or there are days where we just have to, we really have had to have conversations with each other multiple times where we've said, listen, Today was really hard, but unfortunately this is the world we're in.

[00:36:51] And we have to know that this is just the job. We have that it's to teach someone who, and we've said this many, many times on the show, the word ignorant and not in a negative way, ignorant and literally just means they don't know as much, but like we it's our job to just teach someone who's more, who's ignorant to something.

[00:37:13] To just learn more about it. Ignorance is dangerous. Yeah, definitely. It is job to just teach somebody something. And it's, I didn't ask for the job. It's the job I have as a parent. And if I don't do it, my son and daughter, aren't going to learn that job. And they're not going to teach. They're not going to be advocates for themselves.

[00:37:34] Well, I just would like first, I really want to honor what you're saying and your honesty, because so often I think even parents have to kind of come off like these angels. Well, yeah, well, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah. So inspirational. And it's like, no, actually I'm really having a crappy day, you know?

[00:37:54] And we all deserve that. And like I certainly said to my wife, Sarah, I just like, I want a day off. Yeah. Like I, you know, I don't want to leave the house, you know, I don't want to have to deal with the outside world. It's not like I, uh, I mean, it's better than the Bay area because there's so many people with disabilities, but it's sometimes it's like, I just want a day off from being just, yeah, you can't like, take it off and change it.

[00:38:20] We actually had this conversation in this house the other day and we're talking about something else and yeah. Without getting all into it, but we are talking about our son and in Eddie had to kind of say he can't take it off. He can't. And, and, and we are lucky, not lucky, but he, there are, you know, he has for lack of a better word, most of the time, a invisible disability, which I hate as a word, but it really is like, we're, you know, if he's got jeans on that are a little bit baggier and he doesn't have his braces on and he's not walking around too much and he doesn't need to go long distance, he's not using his wheelchair.

[00:38:57] You probably don't know he has a disability. Um, and. So, but if he's at school, The kids at school know he does because he's walking around with them more. He's a little bit slower behind the other kids. They know he wears braces, you know, there's just, he walks differently. And so he can't take that off and.

[00:39:21] Be like everybody else, like it's just not going to be like that. And so he's aware of that now he's older where he's understanding that. And so that just doesn't, it's just par and he knows, he goes to the bathroom differently. He knows everything. It just isn't going to go away. And so it's one of those conversations where like, you can say any day, like, Oh, I'm anxious or this and I under those are real.

[00:39:42] Issues, but we can find coping mechanisms. We can there's medication. There's lots of different things to kind of work through those things. There's nothing that he can work through that. Just going to make this easier. It's there. It's not going anywhere. It's his day. And. You know, I feel for him that, you know, the best I can say to him is that we're just going to be easy days and there's going to be hard days and we just have to get through the hard ones and enjoy the easy ones.

[00:40:07] And those are our days. There's not really any better things I can say for him. I mean, I think that we, all of us disabled or not, you've got to cut yourself some Slack sometimes, you know, sometimes you really just have a really lousy day and what you want to do is I just want to have dinner and, and climate event.

[00:40:28] Yeah. You know, or, and that it's okay. You don't have to be, um, you know, you don't have to be, you know, sinker person every day. And that it it's good to really feel your fields. Yeah, the most important thing. And Nicole and I really had this kind of bizarre one word that was really a guiding light for us throughout the making of the film.

[00:40:53] And even past that, which is the word community. And that we found community at camp. We found people, found community and trust in the other people that were sitting in for 26 days in that federal building so many years ago. And that you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You. Need, especially when you're younger to see things modeled for, you always said that role model is wheelchair user.

[00:41:23] It's kind of a funny, you know, but it's, you know, it's really the truth and that's what I needed. And that's what I got at camp Jeanette. Yeah. And seeing these people with disabilities is counselors and other folks and headlines. And, and so, and so I think there's a balance between like being mainstreamed and, you know, and being, you know, with all the other, every, all the other kids.

[00:41:49] Yeah, but I think there's also some real benefits to things like sports programs, like wheelchair basketball or other things that I know that I did. I did wheelchair, I did some wheelchair sports when I was in my twenties, because I certainly didn't have anything for me when I was in high school, but that, that kind of socializing with other people and, and.

[00:42:14] Um, it's just really, really, really important. Just seeing it. We actually saw that happen for real in this house. Like we, Eddie wasn't, I mean, he's younger, so he wasn't real into doing, you know, much of anything he's pre like five, five, four and a half five, and yeah. We were hit, but his sister was doing a lot of different sports and we are a part of a program here, CHD that does.

[00:42:44] Some, um, disability programs and disability advocacy, and they do, um, wheelchair basketball. They do what other, they do just lots of different. And they do sled hockey. They do sled hockey and they kind of invited us to be a part of it. And he was so tiny and we were like, Oh, we'll try it. And he wasn't real interested and it was cold and he didn't really want to do it.

[00:43:04] And so at first we weren't going to push him and then we kind of just kept saying, let's just keep going. Let's keep going. And then we met. Another, we met, um, a gentleman who I say gentlemen, to me, he's a kid, but he's like 19 and he's on the FA the USA sled hockey team and he's local and he has spinal bifida and he

[00:43:30] that's all it suck for my son to be. Sled hockey all the time. Like all we want to do sled hockey, like Kyle, Kyle, all the time. And in that, you know, in that sled on the ice chasing Kyle, like if Kyle was there, he was there. If Kyle was going to come visit, if Kyle was going to be on the ice, he wanted to hang out with Kyle to show him how fast I show, how fast he was.

[00:43:52] And then it, now Eddie plays too with him to like, try it out. So I get excited to show her how fast I can't turn it off. I just go really fast right on the wall. Yeah. Still not as fast as Kyle, but it's pretty cool. But yeah, just that, you know, something I wouldn't have thought about. I wouldn't have pushed him.

[00:44:15] I would have just spent Oh, nevermind. But it was that connection of seeing somebody do it, somebody accomplish it like him. And then say, Oh, okay. Yeah. And you know, he, cause he just thought I can't do this. I can't do this. It's not for me. He needed to see it. You know, he needed to see it modeled for him.

[00:44:35] Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. So, yeah. And the other thing, you know, I didn't want, wanted to point out that. I just think it's a little off topic, but I wanted to say that, you know, everybody that I thought. In the film that I think really stood out to me. And it's a Testament for how wonderfully you guys, you know, set out that film showed everybody had a voice.

[00:45:01] There isn't anybody at that camp, anybody at the citizens, anybody in that just didn't have a voice, you know? And that really just showed that. Because I think so often people with disabilities don't get a voice because it's assumed they don't need one, or they don't have one. And as a parent or an advocate in this community, I have so many friends with children and that people just assume they don't have a voice.

[00:45:32] They don't have something to say. Yeah, they're living in. People are living in this world. They have something to say, and it was really not only was it amazing to see everyone had a voice, but most they're all. I mean, everyone was kids, you know, I mean, even council, those counselors are all kids and that's spell.

[00:45:51] I mean, I'm an adult. So to me, they're all kids like everybody in that film as a child, you know, they're all kids under, you know, 20th, something kids. Um, it was pretty exciting to kind of just see everyone had a voice. And I, I I'm a firm believer that giving people voices helps make change. I don't think there would have been so much change happening and so much advocacy to this day with everybody in that film, if there wasn't everyone having that option.

[00:46:19] Yeah. But no one was going to give him. Those folks, the voice. Yeah. They had to go out and demand it and keep pushing and pushing and pushing and putting their lives in danger to make that happen. Cause yeah, I mean, and this is stigma. This is why it's so important for films and television shows to be made that really show us we're who we are and what we.

[00:46:49] And what we are, what you're capable of. Yeah. As opposed to, you know, So horrible films that I, you know, keep on getting made about, you know, I don't know. I didn't want to give him the line of day negative trips. There's a lot of negative tropes around disability that really have no place. Uh, uh, in filmmaking or on anybody's screen anymore.

[00:47:14] Yeah. We want to see some change in filmmaking and I know I want to see out there more documentaries and things like that, but I want to see it for the positive. And I know you had mentioned that, you know, there there's a tendency for people to kind of go out and make a negative out of it and have that rhetoric of.

[00:47:37] Like the, what I've noticed, like the pity, like documentary in a way of, you know, making it look negative. I don't, I hate it. I don't, I'm not a fan of it. We could unpack this one issue around a hundred representation of people with disabilities in the media. Um, and it would take us a couple of hours. Yeah.

[00:48:00] So, or at least that's the way it feels to me as somebody who's worked in, in film and television for a long time. Um, I think that the, what I want to see changed is, uh, representation and misrepresentation being, um, Actually authentic. And so some of the examples of real negative films are the kind of the trips that we have seen over the years.

[00:48:34] And I'm certainly, you know, uh, you know, they are the inspirational stories or the. You know, the story of pity or overcoming all odds and or Dean? Well, we joke is like, well, here's the super cripple who climbed half go with his pinkies and my gosh, you know, everybody, you can do it. There's no reason for you to.

[00:48:59] The only disability is a bad attitude. The inspirational porn. Yeah. Well, we're talking about Stella young, right? I mean, have you seen her Ted talk or young and um, may she rest in peace? But there's that incredible Ted talk that she did on inspiration porn. And when I'm talking with people or realizing there's some things that they could really benefit from learning about disability and kind of, I mean, sending people to that Ted talk is one of the things I do.

[00:49:35] Yeah. So sending people over to, uh, Alice Wong's website, The disability visibility project is extremely important also. And I mean, these are just two of hundreds of resources that, you know, one can point folks to, in regards to saying, you may think you understand, but. Unless you understand the concepts between, uh, beyond, uh, you know, about inspiration porn or that if you don't really did dive deeply into disability justice, you don't know enough and that, and selling the same debt, like.

[00:50:16] Hollywood and, you know, producers and directors and writers. And so when you look at films, like maybe for you, in which a character, this guy who becomes a quadriplegic and it's filthy rich, he falls in love with this woman. Who's kind of going to, supposed to be his caretaker. And we're still decides that, you know, Even after all this wonderful stuff I still want to go to, I don't know, Switzerland, it'd become euthanize.

[00:50:45] It's like, yeah. Why? I mean, why would you want. To have that be a story you would put your name on as a director or a producer or a studio. Exactly. Why, what is the purpose of this? How is that possibly doing anything good in the world? Exactly. Because it's not because there are people making decisions about us as people with disabilities who will see these, this film and think.

[00:51:21] Boy. I gotta tell you, I just, you know, that's such a horrible life and boy, can I really relate and thank God I saw this film because now I really understand what it's like to become a quadriplegic. Yeah. And it's, and that's it's so not the story. No. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and how do you want to be even the actor in that movie?

[00:51:44] And this is there. There's so many people at play. It's this isn't just an op-ed piece in one, person's writing it and maybe one person's publishing it. And so there's two people making a mist up. There's a lot of people at play, making a movie or making, you know, where all of these people are signing off on something.

[00:52:04] And there's a bunch of actors involved and we're. It's tough for me to kind of get behind something when someone just goes, Oh, that was a misstep. Oh, I really wasn't thinking that went through it when I'm like, all of these people were involved in making this happen. And I can't, it's hard for me to think that everybody wasn't thinking that one through and someone didn't just put their hand up and go, this wasn't set.

[00:52:25] Right. I'm not quite sure this is the story. This is this doesn't. I don't think this is how someone's. Full life goes like this. It just isn't how someone's story is. You know, I think that when anyone's writing a book or a story or a screenplay or anything, you're writing it because it's, I mean, obviously things are fiction, but you're usually writing something 99% of the time, even when it's far fiction, because it's based on some sort of.

[00:52:55] Storyline, so people can relate to it. You know, I could be wrong about this because I literally know about this, this particular film just by what other people have told me. Yeah. I can guess which film we're talking about. And I definitely didn't see it, but I definitely know I'm talking about you before, maybe for you, but, uh, that, and, uh, But I believe, and everybody can fact check me on this.

[00:53:25] I don't think that's how the book ended. Yeah. Oh, so it was like an interpretation of, yeah. That makes me a little sadder for who wrote the book? Well, I got to say that who was in the room? I mean, when you're not in the room, this kind of stuff happens. Yeah. And so when we're not in the writers room, when we're not in the board rooms, when we're not, uh, producers, when we're not, yeah.

[00:53:55] Um, this is going to happen and it's,

[00:54:03] I'm sorry, I'm just, you know, kind of pausing my words because. Um, I feel the pain. Yeah. I feel the pain because I can also see how this has played out in the world and you know what we need. Isn't like, everything is just fine. Doesn't matter if you're, you know, a quadriplegic now, your life will go on and don't worry about it.

[00:54:29] No, it's a big deal. It's it's, you know, you don't want this to happen, but what you want people to know? Is the reality of the situation. And you want people to see films and see people cool or not cool are relatable. Of course not like touchables in that. They're either, like I mentioned this, like, you know, super athletes or that they are people who are just pitiful and given up, you know, you need to see.

[00:55:04] This film would not be so damaging. If there were a hundred other films. Right. Which the disability experience, which was shown, and we could see a wide breadth of storylines and experiences. Um, you know, I wouldn't find it as harmful if that wasn't one of the, you know, the few things that we see. Well, I think that's key media.

[00:55:28] It's key that, you know, you just kind of hit the nail on the head. There there's two things where one is, you know, represent, you know, Representation matters. Being in the room matters. We do not. We say this across the board and it's not just in the disability community. It's my, you know, being a minority, you know, of the world in general, whether it's the color of your skin or your sexual orientation or having a disability or whatever it might be.

[00:55:56] You're not in the room when these decisions are being made. You're not getting represented as a whole. And it. Honestly it, whether you're in the room or not, it shouldn't matter. We should just be representing. But unfortunately the way that it is is you have to be in the room to get heard. So let's put people in the rooms so that things can get the change can happen.

[00:56:16] And the big thing, I think the second part of that is we've kind of said this before, and we've noticed it when we watch, like, I'm like a big fan of like BBC TV and things like that is a lot of what we do see when we do see things on TV movies and. And film is it's the, the disability or whatever it might be.

[00:56:39] First, the storyline is that first and the rest of the story. Second versus the storyline first and the disability maybe is just there. And I'm not, I think I would love to just see. More of, I think that's important too. Sometimes depending on the storyline where maybe there's a storyline where the disability is part of the storyline, because that's the story.

[00:57:07] But I also think that there should just be, we've seen so many other things on British TV that I've watched or other European TV shows, where there are actors in shows that have disabilities. And that is not even a conversation it's not even addressed. They're just actors and they probably just auditioned for a part.

[00:57:28] It wasn't written into the script. Um, I would love to see more of that type of representation here in the United States. I think it's really, really important because that's how the change happens. I think more because then it just becomes crazy to say the norm. I mean, I think that if you look at other marginalized communities and seeing how.

[00:57:51] What has happened to them over the course of the last 30, 40 years on television film? You know, it, you can see, uh, I think a parallel between what's happening with people with disabilities. And now, you know, my gosh on television, you know, 40 years ago, You know, if there was a character who was African American that often was around, it was about their experience, uh, as opposed to them just happening to be a shop owner, or just having to, you know, who they are, you know, a fireman, it was like, man, the system and the man and those sorts of other crap.

[00:58:31] And so, yeah, so we're like, well maybe just token that the reason that they're in is. Shows, because they're going to talk about their experience versus them being just simply part of society. And I think we're 30 years behind in all of this. I joke with people that I'm looking forward to the day when I'm watching a TV show and behind in the back, there's a one-armed barista making somebody an espresso drink.

[00:59:00] Yes. And it's just that, you know, that person is there just an extra yeah, it is. And, but yet audiences I think, are going to only see me to see more and more of people with disabilities, simply as part of the background or part of characters and stuff. Um, before you get people stop worrying about that being distracted.

[00:59:28] Yeah. Now how do you think that we can speed that up? I mean, I know. I see, we've kind of sped things up a little bit when it comes to like sports, you know, we see a lot of outreach in the community with, you know, the disability community with sports and encouraging youth to kind of get more involved there.

[00:59:48] Do you see a way to kind of get youth more involved in film and television to kind of really boost that? I mean, we spoke with Mindy from runway of dreams and now they're working with gamut. Uh, management and I know she's kind of pushing the envelope there a little bit to kind of get people more involved with the, you know, it's more print and a little bit of film and television, but, you know, is that kind of the way to do it, to kind of get more kids involved a little bit and outreach that way to speed things up?

[01:00:26] Um, well, yeah, I think that film was a great way. To go about it. And, um, I was very fortunate. I feel fortunate that I was asked to be a judge on this year's Easter seals, um, uh, film challenge. And, and, and it's all about making a five minute film over, you know, a short period of time and that it needs to be, uh, about.

[01:00:55] Disability or have disabled people, you know, either as directors or in it. And you know, they were really some really top-notch films there. Wow. I mean, very well shot. Great graphics. Interesting use of animation, wonderful performances and yeah. And people being very, very authentic. And I just, I mean, I just loved what I saw and, and so, yeah, I think that is, as we, you know, are in, I think we all touch other people in our lives.

[01:01:33] Right. And if you can advocate for people and if you see in Prentice ships where you see some kind of training person, you know, ask. Cool. Are the people with disabilities? They're part of your group. Oh, we don't, we don't have anybody. Uh, we don't know where to find them. Well, you haven't tried. Well, you haven't tried hard enough or, well, shucks were up a flight of stairs.

[01:01:59] It was, it was the only place we could find that we could afford. Really. Yeah. You made that decision. Did you? Y Y yeah. In other words, You can call it out. You can call it out and be nice about it. He could be called that out and be unhappy about it. But until people call out discrimination and tell people that the status quo is no longer valid and is harmful.

[01:02:32] And it's kind of one of those things, you know, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Things will not change as quickly. Now I. I say that very cavalierly. I think it's tough. Sticking your neck out and being the one that raises their hand or stop somebody from talking when you realize they're excluding people with disabilities.

[01:02:54] Yeah. But I think that we all in our, in our own ways can find ways to be advocates and speak up. Yeah. And I think that it's that right now. I think there's a lot of fire in the world right now about looking at diversity and inclusion and that seeing more and more film festivals and companies and all sorts of other places looking at disability and not just kind of shying away from it.

[01:03:27] And thinking that it's too hard or not realizing that it's important to people include people with disabilities and their diversity, um, agenda. Yeah. I mean it isn't charity. No, it's, it's people saying, you know, if you really want to say that you really are socially conscious that you really do care about how we're treating people and not excluding people.

[01:03:53] You can't avoid the issue of disability. Yeah. And it's not impossible to deal with it. You just have to be willing to do it. And if you feel uncomfortable, I'm sure you felt uncomfortable, but other areas around us about diversity do it. Yeah. Yeah. It now's the time. There's not another time. Like you, you can't wait.

[01:04:18] To make that decision. I mean, or we're going to continue to wait. I think, you know, we've seen that with, you know, other other times and other issues. It's just, you wait until the cup boils over and you know, at what point are you just like, okay, now's the time. And I think I, and, and you can't wait until it affects you.

[01:04:39] And that's the big thing we've learned. I mean, both of us have been kind of. The type of people, even before we had children, advocates in the disability community, obviously more so now that we have children, but both of us have men. And I think that was probably something we learned from our parents and just part of our nature, but really we've learned now with our children, it's like, We need to kind of just when we talk with other people, as we meet people, it's just like this isn't affecting just our family.

[01:05:18] This affects everybody around us because that's the thing that's tricky about this community is that yes. You know, my son was born with a disability, but you might wake up tomorrow and get hit by a truck and be a paraplegic. And so now it gets part of your community too. Or you might someone you're related to my, you know, it's just this it's and it's the largest minority, so it's not really a minority.

[01:05:47] So let's just get on board and stop making it a minority in a way of excluding everybody. And let's just. Make this part of the conversation I think is so important. I can think you can rephrase it and say, stop making this a community that's marginalized. Yes. You know, it's like, indeed, you know? Yeah. If you look at statistics, maybe one out of you say one out of four people, um, have disabilities, but it's, uh, you know, so then it cuts across all strata of society and.

[01:06:24] We were clubbed that anybody can join anytime. Exactly. And that's just the internet. I think this all the time and that's just, you know, quote unquote disabilities that are being whatever you want to say, like tracked. There are so many people going through depression or anxiety or any other struggles that might have their own special needs or difficulties that really fall under the same difficulties.

[01:06:52] And. Have the same type of things that might, we also can have conversations about. And they're sitting at home and having a lot of the same troubles that somebody else might be having. And they're not having conversations because they feel like they don't belong to the same kind of community. And they're being marginalized in the same way, you know, mental health issues.

[01:07:12] I feel like all the time just get overlooked because they don't feel like they belong part of that of the community. And I think that's, I think that also the fear and stigma around mental health issues or developmentally developmental issues are so great. And so overpowering that it's not like people are overlooking that it's like.

[01:07:36] I don't know how to deal with this. And it's like, again, it's the same thing with disability or other groups that one stigmatize, um, You don't know. No, you really don't know. All you hear about are in the news or media or what makes for exciting television are people who, Oh my God, he went off his meds, you know, there's blood shed all over the place and that's just like police.

[01:08:07] Yeah, exactly. Like we should just be a community and if someone's going through something we're just there for each other period. End of conversation. It really doesn't matter what. It is. And I mean, what, I mean, we're a society and the human nature of community. I mean, it's literally part of our genetics, so I'm not sure when we're seeing it during COVID for sure.

[01:08:33] We're we're coming. Like, I mean, people, even with like schooling, they're all like creating these little community schooling type. Atmospheres now while some parents have to go to work and other parents are virtually schooling and everyone's kind of creating these little virtual school community type atmospheres.

[01:08:49] And they're all getting back to this whole idea of community. Now is the time to remember that that's, what's in our, you know, human nature, you know, a lot of, you know, anthropologists will say like, there's tribes that like one. All the women raise all the children. It doesn't matter whose child yours, they're all raising all the children.

[01:09:10] That's the community. We need to remember that we are and just be taking care of our own, which is each of us. Doesn't no matter what's going on. We should just be taking care of each other and caring about each other. That's my soap box. Yeah. Well, so certainly that's not the kind of world we live in.

[01:09:33] Right. Or, you know, that's where they write science fiction. Well, hopefully little things and everybody kind of does their part and we slowly get to a good spot. I think definitely. I w you know, documentaries, like what you guys have put out really. Hits home for people. And I know it did for us, and I know even people we've spoken to and we've referred to the documentary have said it was definitely even more than what they expected.

[01:10:01] It's hit home for them. It's made a difference for them and beyond just the story. And I say characters because everybody in your documentary is such a character and has such a wonderful personality, but you know, the history behind the five Oh four and how you guys got there and how we have gotten there is just such.

[01:10:24] A fantastic story that I feel like it's one of those things where it's like, it should be in everybody's history books. You know, these are things we all need to know on how we got here. Um, so I think it's, you know, we throw out the word five Oh four so often in our house. And so I think it's really exciting that, you know, you get to hear the history behind how everything becomes something.

[01:10:45] Um, so, you know, that I think is really awesome. Nicola and I had a wonderful experience. Um, we, when we premiered the film at the Sundance film festival in January and a family comes in, Nicole and I are going to main street going someplace and the family comes over to us and says, you know, my kids are part of the fibro four generations.

[01:11:06] And I never heard somebody talk about it that way, but generation five Oh four instead of generation X. Yeah, exactly. And that we have, you know, generation ADA, um, and, uh, just made me really happy. I mean, you guys, you know, had a part in creating that, which is really, really cool. Well, you know, I, I am grateful to be part of telling the story of the history of our community and this and this one story.

[01:11:41] Um, uh, but, um, I, you know, I may have mentioned this. Earlier, but there's thousands of stories. And this is one particular story about a moment in time and a group of people that all met at this incredible summer camp. And, um, and I think the lesson that one person can really start a movement. And certainly there was a disability rights before, um, Judy and the other people that you see Judy human and the other people would see in the film, but it's literally.

[01:12:12] You know, you or anybody listening to this could start a movement within their own community. Yeah. And you don't, you never know what it'll create. You never know the power of collaboration there. I've seen it played out over and over in my life that, you know, when you're collaborating with somebody, you know, one, one plus one does not equal two.

[01:12:33] It's going to the gym. And, and it is, um, and very, very quickly becomes so powerful or it can become so powerful. And, um, so I, you know, um, I just, I just think that we live in a very, uh, Complex and amazing time right now. And it's full of, um, sadness and cruelty, but also hope and possibilities and that, um, we've got an ability to communicate, uh, amongst ourselves that is so much more immediate and close then.

[01:13:16] We had back in the 1970s, or really even in the, you know, in the nineties that, you know, my gosh when Judy human w and disabled an actual were trying to gather people together for a demonstration, or they used a phone tree, you know, one person call somebody else. And that person calls two other people who then call two other people or three other people.

[01:13:40] Yeah. And, and, you know, um, and all of a sudden you're reaching, you know, a hundred people in a short period of time. So, um, it's possible. Yeah, for sure. So one thing, Jim, we ask all of our guests, although you have given some amazing advice tonight, um, is if you have 30 seconds to speak to our community, what advice would you give them?

[01:14:09] Find your tribe, find your community, um, take care of yourself. I think we live under this pressure that we have to Excel harder and then higher than anybody else just to have a level playing field, but you also have to make sure that you're not, um, You're not hurting yourself and that you love yourself.

[01:14:36] And, um, and uh, so finding that balance for me has been a lifelong struggle. But it is something that I've learned later in life, how important it is. So that's great. Yeah. So love yourself. I like it. So what, um, so what's next for, I mean, I know you guys are just kind of wrapping up the Crip camp, virtual experience.

[01:15:04] What's kind of on the agenda next for you for Crip camp. Nicole. And I are both kind of looking at what projects we may want to work on it. Move on to we're in discussions about this wonderful community that has rallied around our film. And, and then it's been sparked by these virtual Crip camps every Sunday afternoon.

[01:15:30] And we're just starting to really kind of consider what we'd like to do in 2021 and how we might be able to fund that. Yeah. Um, but, but I don't think you've heard the last of us beyond surly. You're not going to be here as the last of us after the last step virtual camp happens, um, at the end of August and, um, you know, doors have been opening for all of us and myself, and I want to continue to do working in television and, um, and film either as a writer or a producer or as a director.

[01:16:06] And, um, I, I get some interesting emails every once in a while. So good. I mean, I don't think, I think this is another chapter. I mean, I think it's like a whole new beginning in a way. I think I'm excited to see kind of what. It unrolls and unfolds for you guys and the community as a whole kind of excited.

[01:16:28] Literally in the last couple of months, I have seen so many great things on social media about people who've gotten jobs or a company has started an initiative or that people, you know, there are other shows that are in development now that I am like, Wow. There was none of this going on a couple of years ago.

[01:16:50] At least I wasn't aware of it. No, look at what's happening now. Yeah. I think there's a bright future out there and that, you know, um, and I'm really, I really believe that things are really just gonna improve and, uh, and w w we should really enjoy this moment in time and, and be hopeful about the future.

[01:17:14] Awesome. I'm excited. So where can we find everything? Um, I think it's just Crip Right? Yeah, crib Um, there's a lot of good information there. Awesome. Uh, uh, lesson plans and such another resources. So that's a good way. And, um, certainly you can also get a hold of us through

[01:17:42] Perfect. And we'll link everything on all of our sites and our social media and everything, and make sure that we put it all out there for all our listeners. That'd be great. Make sure you put a link to a disability visibility project. Perfect. It's a wonderful and Judy human who, um, has a memoir that's out awesome becoming chairman and, uh, it's, uh, it's a wonderful, I think it's a read.

[01:18:07] A lot of people would really, really love. Definitely. We won't do that. Awesome. Thanks so much, Jim. We appreciate everything. And for you, uh, jumping back on with us after our mini, uh, weather incident, we appreciate your time. Well, thank you. I really, really enjoyed this and I love you guys. You're great.

[01:18:29] Yeah, I hope you have continued success and, and everybody everybody's spread the word about this. Fantastic. Yeah. Well, thank you for you to play. I can get Eddie back out to California. We'll we'll try to hit you up. Cause it's my favorite place.

[01:18:49] It's my that's the point. I don't like a lot of people. Well, thanks for your time, Jim. Really? We appreciate it. Okay, awesome. Okay. I'm going to sign off now. Bye. Well, thank you so much for listening. We really hope you enjoyed this episode as always. Please make sure you share with a friend and leave a review.

[01:19:13] You can find all the resources mentioned in this episode, on our Facebook or Instagram on, at special about special. Thanks again. And we'll see you soon.